[15:07] Hiya everyone :) [15:07] Hi Rowdy! [15:07] Actually it's traffic-stealing [15:07] Hi all [15:07] Gidday [15:07] Freehosts are stealing 404 and foreign, and even search engine traffic in addition to putting their banners on. [15:07] Hi Rastagal, Ron [15:07] hi Rastagal [15:07] Some of them are. [15:08] hello everyone [15:08] Dagwolf, well that will get them banned for sure ;) [15:08] Dagwolf ya get what ya pay for [15:08] That's what I thought (get what you pay for), which is why I was thinking it best to start off right away with a paid site (i.e. pay for the hosting) [15:08] some do and some don't.. the ones that don't (like mine) are a bitch to maintain though because of the amount of attempted cheating. [15:09] lol Yes, I know.I'm starting with no credit card though, and I've moved to Canada where you can't even get a Visa check card.So it's Paypal or free for now, until I get a credit card. [15:09] of course I don't have to screw with anyone on mine because I don't allow tgping which keeps the cost down. [15:09] Canadian here, too [15:10] Plus I don't think I'll ever put a gallery on my own host again.. The traffic put me out of business for a week last time. [15:10] hi pbmax [15:10] weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee [15:10] You can, of course, pay for hosting with a check - it just means no instant access when you set up [15:10] Hiya Rowdy [15:10] Hi pbmax [15:10] hi pbmax [15:10] Hey Rastagal! [15:10] Dagwolf.. if you want, srop me an e-mail about the paypal and I'll check out a host for you that might accept it :) [15:10] drop even [15:10] pardon the newb question: by gallery, do you mean free samples to the public? [15:10] rowdy at adultnetsurprise.com [15:11] <<< sorry still on the damn phone. [15:11] If you want very good paid hosting, Cyberwurx accepts apyment via PayPal and online check as well as by CC [15:11] That's my plan.. I'll be hosting my own AVS and free sites at sexy-redhead.com, but still want freehost for the thumbnail galleries. [15:11] http://www.cyberwurx.com/ [15:11] Lassiter.. that's who I was gonna check with...lol :) [15:11] Spyborg: Yes, that's what I mean. Poor traffic, I understand, but gets you name recognition. [15:11] smart man :) [15:11] Rowdy: Yeah, Chris oughta pay me comissions LOL [15:11] Thanks, Lassiter. [15:12] lol.. know what ya mean Lassiter :) [15:12] Hi Crawdad. [15:12] Crawdad! He lives! [15:12] Hrm, true. Why not use a CGI/DB to serve the images so they can't be referred to directly from other sites? Or is the traffic excess truly coming from clicks on the free galleries? [15:12] hi Crawdad [15:12] Hi all, yup, i'm alive [15:12] it lives!!! [15:12] Hi Crawdad! [15:12] :p [15:12] feel better? [15:12] Hi Crawdad [15:12] okkk, finally off the phone, LOL [15:13] Truly, it was coming from the TGPs.I got over a million hits to one page in one day, according to my ISP. [15:13] coughing like a hound dog, but alive [15:13] Then they shut me down, I went over my bandwidth limit.I did make some sales tho. [15:13] <-new system :-) [15:13] Ouch; thought of limiting hits per hour? Kinda cheesy, but it avoids the bandwidth surcharges... [15:13] How's it working pbmax? [15:13] seems good [15:13] That's what I was gonna ask, Dagwolf.Did you make enough to pay for the bandwidth? ;) [15:14] Hey Crawdad [15:14] is 5 gig HD good? [15:14] Spyborg:That's beyond my abilities, and the TGPs that listed me would not like it.. [15:14] hi MML [15:14] mornin' all [15:14] Hiya Raven [15:14] Raven Baby [15:14] Hi [15:14] Hi Raven [15:14] Hiya Raven [15:14] 'Afternoon here in Toronto :) [15:14] hey, CD....:-) hugs, sweetie [15:14] pbmax: I'd spend another $60 or so and get a nice 40GB [15:14] hi, mr. m..... [15:14] hi tictac [15:14] Lassiter: Yes, but I changed hosts anyway.I didn't like being cut off without warning. [15:14] Raven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [15:14] hi tictac [15:14] * Raven wiggles toes in front of mr. m [15:15] hiya, pbmax :-) [15:15] hi, rastagal [15:15] hey, frank :-)) [15:15] hiya, lassiter....:-) [15:15] hiya, rowdy.... [15:15] 5 gig good? depends on the size system to a degree [15:15] afternoon, everyone!! [15:15] hugs back at ya Raven [15:15] So what's a decent price per month that one should pay when getting an adult-OK webhost? [15:15] SpyBorg: Depends on how much storage and bandwidth you anticipate needing [15:16] mmmm dont know much about it Rowdy [15:16] Hello, Raven. [15:16] SpyBorg.. it varies.. there are places where you pay for a package and then extra if you go over the set amount and then there are places that charge per gig only [15:16] hiya, dagwolf :-) [15:16] oh just mr m :( [15:16] doesn't it also depend on what kind of sites you're going to have, rowdy? or did i miss that part? [15:16] Hrm, I'm thinking to starto off with about a gig of storage and a gig of bandwidth - Not sure how my "marketing" skills will do in promoting it, since I'm primarily a Perl/MySQL programmer over a marketer :) [15:17] that will determine what kind of hosting needs you'd have [15:17] SpyBorg: If yer doing TGP seriously that bandwidth will be gone in a flash [15:17] Absolutely.... [15:18] TGP? (bear with me while I get up to speed on terms) [15:18] Thumbnail gallery post [15:18] correct Raven.. the site depends as well :) [15:18] Ah- ok - tx [15:18] well, rowdy, being late and all...maybe i had missed that part [15:18] Should be fine to start with for free sites though if you keep the pics optimized [15:18] See AL4A, The Hun et al [15:19] From what I've seen, US$50 a month seems to be doable for a beginner Adult site host, I don't mind paying that for a few months while I experiment with content delivery and promotion [15:19] SpyBorg - http://www.adultnetsurprise.com/newbiezone/newbiepack/ - check that out :) [15:19] Raven.. nope, I'm the one that missed it when explaining :) [15:20] Exclusive Content - Specializing in Anime, Hentai, Bishojou and Toon Content! Amazing Adult Comics Feeds Too! Why be like everyone else? Be Exclusive! http://www.exclusivecontent.com/ [15:20] spyborg, forgive me...what kind of sites are you planning to create? [15:20] Cyberwurx offers 3 GB bandwidth and 100 MB storage for $24.95/mo. [15:20] thanks, checking it out now - I found the reference to this chat at 2:58 - just in time to log in - from the newbiezone [15:20] $6/Gig for overage [15:21] But they dont cut you off for oberage...just for nonpayment ;) [15:21] I think 24khosting has went to a flat 2.75 a gig deal which is pretty good for starting out on free sites and so forth but not very feasible for tgp's :) [15:21] if you call cyberwurx, if that's who you choose, they will also put together a package suitable for your needs, as will most good hosting companies [15:21] I'm thinking of starting off with simple porn, no fetishes or age-specific stuff, along with some dynamic content driven from a DB [15:21] Does anyone here use freehosts for thumbnail galleries? [15:22] not I Dagwolf [15:22] I definitely don't want to start off with a free host - from what I've seen you have to use their content, banner hell and many of them get the rights to your own content, to boot [15:22] no, dagwolf [15:22] wow [15:22] Me either Dagwolf [15:22] Things HAVE changed. [15:22] Hard to get free host listed anywhere anymore. [15:22] Yes it is. [15:22] They get the rights to your content??? Sheeesh!A good reminder to always read the fine print. [15:22] SpyBorg some free hosts are good to learn the building process [15:23] SpyBorg.. there are some good freehosts out there... but if you want to make a serious attempt at a business, paid hosting is the best route [15:23] What if someone else already has the rights to the content....most pics are licensed from somewhere else. [15:23] Good point pbmax... helps to experiment and make sure this is what you want to do before diving in. :) [15:23] 'sok, I'm mostly using public domain pics for my galleries :-)1920s french postcards... [15:23] Rowdy: yeah, that's what I think - I'm not new to web building or promoting by any stretch - just to the adult industry :) [15:23] I used TGPfreehost for a while [15:23] They can take all they want hehe [15:24] I'm thinking of making my own content (i.e. paying people for an hour for a series of pics, with them signing the rights for publication over to me) [15:24] Dagwolf.. wouldn't touch "public domain" at all! That can get a person into a real nasty situation [15:24] Dagwolf: You should be very very sure that it is in fact public domain.If you think it is but it really isn't, paying a webhost may be the least of yer worries. [15:24] huuummm, PostCards should be copyright and therefore not public domain it would seem. [15:25] From the 1920s? [15:25] yeah, but copyright is only good for 50 years, IIRC (re: 20's postcards) [15:25] Everything is copyright. [15:25] 75 years now I think, but maybe not retroactive [15:25] not all copyright's are 50 years. [15:25] I think only the Disney case is 70 years, with everything else still 50 [15:25] is it? not sure on that. But at any rate I don't like taking chances.LOL [15:25] as long as there has been no extensions as the laws change all the time on that junk.. just not worth the hassle imho [15:26] at frank [15:26] Agreed Rowdy [15:26] Dagwolf, you might want to check out http://www.adultnetsurprise.com/newbiezone/clinks.phtml as well :) [15:26] Thanks :-) [15:26] Out of curiosity, has anyone found success by using adult stories - i.e. where the focus is the story and not the images? [15:27] It's great seeing new folks and folks getting back into the biz.:))) Enjoy seeing you participate on the board! [15:27] SpyBorg.. I have some decent performing story sites :) and a toplist/linklist site as well dedicated to stories [15:27] Frank: I was quite pleased to find your site via google - answers a lot of questions as I'm looking into setting this up :) [15:27] SpyBorg - Story sites ell. No need for images, you are selling stories. [15:27] sell [15:28] It's nice to be able to ask questions in realtime... Although I've found the Netsurprise newbie board and Greenguy's links list message board very helpful too (free blurb)... [15:28] But what if on the site you have the stories do you think that will help with sponsor sales etc? [15:28] Rowdy/Frank: Good to hear; I wrote some "neverending / choose your own adventure" style story scripts last year for (ironically) a couple of children's sites, but I've always wanted to try them out in an adult venue [15:28] Great to hear SpyBorg. We're all here to help in any way we can. Participating is the key to success in my opinion. [15:28] Rastagal.. best to find a story sponsor to send the traffic to :) [15:28] Dagwolf. Theres stuff all over the ANS web site that is helpfull [15:29] ok [15:29] You should drop into the board and start posting so we get to know ya better. :))) [15:29] Rowdy, dunno if you saw, but after all yer help with the javascript box, I prob. can't use it much 'cause the Link lists don't like 'em. B-/ [15:29] Well, my first key was getting my wife to agree that she didn't have a problem if I went into this, which was scarily a lot easier than I thought :) [15:29] Lassiter.. figured you knew they'd count as a pop up :) [15:29] hehe [15:29] Guess I'll just stick all my legalese into the good ol fashioned scroll box [15:29] Lassiter, that is true. They don't work well for the link list. [15:29] Rowdy: Well, I'm a bit slow sometimes LOL [15:30] Best thing to do with that is I'd say to make it a middle page warning or something from any SE traffic as if they are coming from an adult linklist .. doubt you'll have to worry much [15:30] Will do (drop into the board) - a colleague of mine and I just started discussing the idea of doing an adult site last week and today's the first day I've seriously started the background research :) [15:30] hello raeahn [15:30] My wife actually enjoys it Spyborg [15:30] With linklists. Are they hard to set up and expensive to buy the script? I can design the hell out of sites but can't write my own scripts [15:30] I just wanted to get away from having that scroll bar taking up page space, but ah well ;) [15:30] pbmax: Sounds like my wife will, as well, since she's asked me three times if I've started the setup for the site, yet :) [15:31] By the way... What's all this about CCbill and ibill charging lots to their webmasters now?I'm not sure I've got the story straignt. [15:31] Rowdy: The legal eagles say they think it's important to have it before an "enter" link, though [15:31] Lassiter.. but you can set that scroll hieght to whatever you want :) One line at a time if you're in an evil mood...lol [15:31] You can make them boxes pretty small cant you? [15:31] Takes time and patience with a link list rastagal. Takes time to build traffic and bookmarkers. You can get good scripts starting at $400 or so. [15:31] ok ty [15:31] Rowdy: Well, yeah...sometimes I may be that evil, but I figure they should be able to read it too. ;) [15:32] you could, pbmax....but, why..a warning is a warning...it doesn't have to be huge..and, in the end, it's not the be all and end all for protection....but, you can make it a decent size without taking up too much space [15:32] Rastagal: you can also look into getting someone to write custom for you. There are a lot of decent CGI programmers out there who don't charge an arm and a leg :) [15:32] gossamer threads links2.o (non-mysql) is a freebie [15:32] www.gossamer-threads.com [15:32] right Raven [15:32] I am helping someone revamp her's at the present time. Actually we are kinda partners :)It can be a pain to run a LL. But many things are I guess. :) [15:32] has full search, add, category/subcategory capabilities [15:33] http://www.tdscripts.comhas a nice link list script too. :) [15:33] I believe www.cgi-resources.com maintains lists of programmers looking for contract/piece work, as well [15:33] (repeat) What's all this about CCbill and ibill charging lots to their webmasters now?I'm not sure I've got the story straignt. [15:33] Anyway, having an attorney actually explaining potential liability issues was an interesting experience.I already knew most of it, but it's kinda sobering. [15:33] I know Lassiter.. it's a pain.. but at the same time I don't think it's really reasonable to have every page with a warning so to me, if you put it on the stock index, where people searching for it out of the SE's would come across it, it's a happy medium as when traffic comes from elsewhere.. there's only so much you can do unless you protect the whole damn site :) [15:33] And what's a link list script? [15:33] I will look into it. [15:34] Dagwolf.. that's for people processing adult sites and so forth [15:34] Dagwolf, that's for more PaySites than anything. Not really affecting a free site person at the moment... [15:34] Rowdy: Well, yes, I only need to have it on the first page, really. [15:34] linklist script is just a "tool" that makes managing a bunch of links and pages easier [15:34] you can find the article in the Adult Buzz http://www.adultbuzz.com [15:35] hi fetish1 [15:35] Hi! [15:35] hi plc [15:35] Hiya Rowdy [15:35] hi fetish1 [15:35] Hi Rowdy [15:35] Hi fetish1 :)))) Good to see ya. I just sent you a e-mail. [15:35] But on a webmaster site wouldn'talink list help or not? [15:35] Rowdy: Did you look at the language?Very interesting.There's potential, but possibly quite real, liability over outside links both to and from one's site. [15:35] Hiya Crawdad...you feelin better? [15:35] Ah cool.I used to run a linklist manually ... I'd like to see that. [15:35] FETISH!!! you made it!!! [15:35] Thanks Hiya Frank! [15:35] yawnnnnnnnnnn [15:35] RAVENNNNNNNNNN :-) [15:35] Hi Fetish1!!!! [15:35] feeling some better, this bug is a real booger, and everyone around here seems to have it [15:36] RAVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [15:36] Hiya Lassister!!! [15:36] Hard to get over sickness when others around you have it too :( [15:36] Well I hope it passes soon Crawdad :( [15:36] anyone have a suggestion for what kind of money one should have when starting an adult site up? I was thinking (naively?) that I should plan on six months to show whether i can make a decent buck off the venture or not... [15:36] me too, got ten days to AWE...i gotta be better by then [15:36] Seems like everyone is sick almost [15:37] howdy pbmax [15:37] lassiter, there is no real safety....we do warnings because we think it might help..... [15:37] hiya Fetish1! [15:37] being in the adult industry, by it's own definition, is not safe [15:37] Raven: Yep.That's what the attorney explained. [15:37] SpyBorg... it's hard to set a timeframe because it depends on what you are doing, how many sites you get out there, etc... [15:37] You may not see a lot of results in just 6 months, but some. [15:38] I'm thinking of just doing a single one, so I can focus all my energies on making that one work [15:38] But very few people have warning language disclaimers about outside sites that may link to yours. [15:38] it also depends on how well you market, what niche you choose, where you get your traffic, if you get traffic, your costs of daily living, etc [15:38] Is it better to have many sites out there or just one or two? [15:38] Lassiter.. it boils down to anyone one "power" can decide to screw wwith damn near anyone. You just have to do your best to feel comfortable if the worst comes to worst and you end up in court explaining things. [15:38] Fall/Winter is usually much better than Spring/Summer. So what you may be seeing soon will not be a indication of what will happen next year. [15:38] Rowdy: Yeppers. [15:38] Raven: understood: I run a profitable CGI/DB programming business as it is, so this isn't putting groceries in the cupboard, so to speak [15:39] Rastagal, many I think [15:39] It takes a full year and going through all the various seasons to get a idea of how the biz is and what to expect to a degree. [15:39] understood, spyborg....i tell people to give it a year to see results....but, i'm a conservative... [15:39] I thought so but wanted to see what others thought lol [15:39] and what frank just said better than i did :-)) [15:39] lol [15:39] Rastagal, it takes many many many to make money in this biz. [15:40] some have hundreds [15:40] Rastagal... alot of good sites is great.. alot of shitty sites isn't :) [15:40] True. I see the same cycles as a CGI guy: Summers are dead slow and winter/spring is more business than I can handle (so I've finally hired another programmer, which lets me look at this idea :) [15:40] well said, rowdy [15:40] pbmax LOL, some have many thousands too. [15:40] hi, eclectixxx :-)) [15:40] hi EclectiXXX [15:40] Amen Rowdy [15:40] Hiya EclectiXXX [15:40] ty Raven :) [15:40] I thought so Frank! [15:40] Hiya folks! [15:40] Hi EclectiXXX [15:40] I made it! [15:40] hi Electixxx [15:40] gotta turn o my ICQ duh! [15:40] If you run one site.. Market it etc.. odds are still you won't make to good on it. But with many sites you have better odds. True? [15:40] Though good sites does'nt necessarily mean pretty ;) [15:40] I ran up on someone sometime back that had over 20,000 [15:40] true Rastagal [15:41] Here's a good question:What's the best SINGLE method of promoting an AVS site?a free site? A pay site? [15:41] geeeeeees [15:41] sorry, phone....see y'all later...:-) have a great day [15:41] True, though I wonder if one site with multiple domains pointing to it would accomplish the same thing? [15:41] sounds like Longhair he has 1,000's of sites... [15:41] brb [15:41] Assuming you take time to do good research and get decent tfaffic to them [15:41] Well I would imagine submitting to the right places [15:41] Dagwolf, no single method [15:41] Dagwolf is all in the prestation of your sites [15:42] Hiya MrM didnt see ya hiding there :) [15:42] How big a factor does Usenet play into most of your marketing/traffic generation efforts? [15:42] Dagwolf: All 3 require different techniques to a degree, and similar ones to a degree too [15:42] which boils down to one thing selling [15:42] Dagwolf.. First with any sites do your best to work the search engines for AVS - make mirrored entrances and link to link list and also small feeder sites to feed it traffic. [15:42] I dont think there are any magic potins in this biz [15:42] Yes, what MrMaryLou said [15:42] I say TRAFFIC [15:42] Would you say you use more paid advertising or free? [15:42] Since it takes different methods how would an AVS site be promoted then? I am having trouble with that and not my freesites [15:42] Free sites - mirrored entrances to link to as many link list as possible as well. [15:43] Many link lists reject those mirrored entrances don't they? [15:43] No Dagwolf just depends on how you do it [15:43] not unless you are blatantly obviious by making index24.htm etc. [15:43] back :) [15:43] Not if you do them right Dagwolf. You can't do like index30.html and such [15:43] lol [15:43] hehehe [15:43] sure things like index21 and crap like that [15:43] LOL, yea, what fetish1 said LOL [15:43] heh [15:43] :) [15:44] Rastagal: Use free sites to sell your AVS sites & memberships.Then use your smaller AVS sites to upsell your larger Gold or Silver or whatever sites [15:44] how much does Usenet play into marketing / traffic generation for adult sites? [15:44] << be creative [15:44] lmao [15:44] what would you call a 24th index? [15:44] Oh I see. Ty lassiter [15:44] Like, index.html main.html page1.html hotstuff.html? [15:44] usnet dont use it [15:44] :) fetish1 [15:44] I dont generate any traffic from that Spyborg [15:44] SpyBorg unless you are way past Newbie it should be NONE [15:44] SpyBorg.. I don't touch it ... [15:45] I was curious about Usenet, simply because of the sheer number of adult binaries groups [15:45] What is Spyborg? [15:45] Pic traders [15:45] Rastagal: Thats an oversimplification, but very generally the idea [15:45] Dag like index.htm index.html index.shtml index.php index.asp [15:45] We can only expect so much traffic to any one site. Don't beat yourself to death by being unrealistic... [15:45] Oh ok great. I don't know why I tried avs they are driving me crazy. But I will keep trying [15:45] then default.htm default.html default.shtml etc [15:45] SpyBorg: Usenets only there to keep you from making money. [15:46] About the best thing to do is to link with as many places as possible. Work the search engines the best you can and move on. [15:46] Lassiter: So most usenet traffic is simply people looking for free jerk-off pics? [15:46] and remember... traffic is only the "key" that you use after finding the "door" of making sales :) [15:46] and always remember dmoz.org [15:46] SpyBorg: Most traffic in *general* is only looking for free jerk-off pics LOL [15:46] good advice Frank [15:46] I've found the door :-) [15:46] I can't get a listing on dmoz anymore to save my hiney [15:46] LOL (Lassiter) [15:47] Very true Rowdy.... Getting traffic is just one thing. Being able to sell is another and also the "quality" of the traffic. [15:47] fetish1 gotta find those categories that aren't too big yet [15:47] dmoz isn't as important as it used to be, but it does get you into some engines and it's good for link pop [15:47] hiya ross0 [15:47] Frank... want to throw out the url of the Newbie Project for everyone :) [15:47] SpyBorg: But at least the web surfers may be convinced to buy something too...folks on Usenet are probably not gonna be going to your free site and seeing your ads, 'cause all the pics are already there. [15:47] hi rossO [15:47] hey frank! :) [15:47] Numbers are nice...but I would rather have 1000 good hits as 10,000 trash hits [15:47] I was gonna do a amature lesbian [15:47] hey rowdy! [15:47] (site) [15:47] getting it [15:47] Hiya ross0 [15:47] Hiya Ross0 [15:48] hey fetish1,lassiter [15:48] wooooo! [15:48] Oh yes the newbie project.... I am going to do cum shots or ebony is that ok? [15:48] pbmax: Me too, but she kicked the shit outta me ;) [15:48] But theres not many sponsors [15:48] Before the chat ends...lol... want to make sure everyone has seen the project and so forth :) [15:48] Lassiter: Good point. There's a *massive* amount of repeat traffic/pics in the 'groups that the idiots spamming them are claiming as "new" or "custom" [15:48] lol lassiter [15:48] http://www.adultnetsurprise.com/newbiezone/project7.phtml [15:49] pbmax .. use a mix of sponsors such as amateurs and or lesbians ... there's plenty that has both content.. just maybe not at the same time :) [15:49] We have many good Newbie Projects in the Newbie Zone http://www.adultnetsurprise.com/newbiezone/ everyone should take a look :))) [15:49] right Rowdy [15:49] I'm turning my teen freebie site into primarily a portal w/ a couple of weekly galleries [15:49] Rastagal.. that's fine [15:49] SpyBorg: Further, almost all reputable sponsors forbid using Usenet to promote [15:49] On the newbie we can use our own content or does it have to be the sponsors [15:49] Rastagal.. it only has to be legal content :) [15:49] The less you use sponsor content the better off you are Rastagal [15:49] Lassiter: Too much of a spam-magnet, eh? [15:49] ok ty [15:50] Why waste your own content rastagal? [15:50] SpyBorg: Exactly. [15:50] well true [15:50] No need to give exclusive stuff away for free [15:50] Most sponsors say nopromotion via Usenet or email [15:50] I just wasn't to sure and thought I had better ask [15:50] Remember, the projects are a chance to learn and at the end, you'll have a useable site as well as a chance at winning a prize :) [15:50] just got off the phone with my dad, my brother has Mono [15:50] Make a Platinum or Gold AVS site. [15:50] Bummer Crawdad [15:50] Damn Crawdad...sorry Hun [15:50] Oh I just got over mono yucky [15:50] that sucks Crawdad [15:50] Hrm, well, we'll definitely be using our own content - don't want to be paying for content that's already up on nine billion other sites [15:50] so now i gotta go down and get checked [15:51] just wonderful [15:51] hey crawdad,...later crawdad [15:51] mono sucks [15:51] lol ross [15:51] hehe [15:51] Sorry to hear that Crawdad, [15:51] i can't get in till tomorrow morning [15:51] take care [15:51] SpyBorg, it depends on what your gonna do. You may find that it's a waste. [15:51] C ya Crawdad [15:51] But Crawdad: you can stay home and work...oh, wait, u already do that. Never mind. [15:51] Get some Rest Crawdad [15:51] I had it when I first started jr college (geez...12 years ago) but a relatively mild case [15:52] i will, i hate being sick [15:52] I was just tired all the time [15:52]